1884


A.S.L.E.& F.’s membership reaches one thousand members.





THE RAILWAY REVIEW

18TH JANUARY 1884

ORPHAN FUND BRIGHTON

Two addresses were delivered in the Railway Reading Room on Sunday last, the 13th, for the benefit of the Orphan Fund, by Mrs Gates. In the afternoon the good lady took the text, James i, 27th verse, and handled the subject in a masterly manner, making a most impassioned appeal on behalf of the poor orphans. Several appropriate hymns were sung, and some sound advice given; Mrs. Gates also spoke in very favourable terms respecting the Railway Review. Until last week she was under the impression that it advocated an aggressive policy, and was adapted specially to work mischief between man and master. The lady was pleased to find out the mistake. In driving attention to our Sunday night meetings at public houses, the lady expressed a hope that the members would make an effort to hold them on some other night. The branch secretary writes:- "After the address I explained the reason our meetings were on Sunday. Some time ago (after two failures) a member carried a motion to hold our meetings on week nights. It was tried, but I am sorry to say it proved a failure, and I have not the least hesitation in stating that had we continued these meetings, this branch would be a sleeping one at the present time. I gave notice last meeting night of a motion I intend bringing forward at our next meeting on Jan. 27th, respecting this subject, and earnestly invite those members who are opposed to Sunday night meetings to attend and support me, as I expect to meet some opposition. many thanks are due to Mrs. Gates for her sympathy. I sincerely hope it will be the commencement of an effort to make this branch one of the strongest and the heartiest supporters of our orphan fund.The two sermons realised a total of £11, and my heartiest wish is that we may never require to use it."



Railway accident on the 


L.B.S.C.R.



London Bridge 1st February 1884

THE RAILWAY REVIEW

28TH MARCH 1884


Colonel Yolland say, as a result of his inquiry into the circumstances connected with the collision which occurred on the 1st ult. at London Bridge station of the London Brighton, and South coast Railway, between a passenger train and a light engine: - No passengers were hurt, and but very little damage was done to the rolling stock. In this case the 12.5 p.m. passenger train from London Bridge station to Victoria station had just started  from alongside platform adjacent to No. 1 line, was passing by means of a cross over road  with facing points on No.1 line across to No.2 line, and from thence to Mo.3 line, which is the only departure line at this part of the terminal station, when it was run into by a light engine travelling southwards from the end of the 11.7 a.m. Brighton train from Mitcham Junction, due at the terminal station at London Bridge at 11.25 a.m., from which it had been uncoupled, and was on its way to the water tank standing near the south end of the No.5 platform in order to take water. in this case the collision was occasioned by the carelessness of the driver of the light en line in having failed to notice that a passenger train. was leaving the station from No.1 line in obedience to the signals which were close ahead, and which signals indicated that the passenger train was leaving by the route through the cross over road. It is quite possible that the driver of the light engine might have though that he could on No.2 line get alongside of the water crane, and take water without fouling the cross over road from No.1lines; but he admits that it was an oversight on his part. By the use of the Westinghouse brake the passenger train was pulled up before it ran any distance. One carriage was thrown off the rails, another was partly off, but the train was not separated into parts. Six carriages were slightly damaged by having head stocks and step-boards broken, step irons bent and torn away, etc.; but the whole of the damage done to the rolling stock is estimated at £30. there is another cross over road from No.1 to No.2 line, about 110 yards further south than the one on which this collision occurred and the company have prohibited passenger train from leaving this station by this route for the present, and have reserved it for shunting purposes; but there can be no doubt that either the position of the water crane on No.5 platform should be changed, or the progress of an engine or train on No.2 line should be barred by signal, or the position of the cross over roads should bee altered so as to avoid any further collision between passenger trains leaving the station and engines and trains engaged in taking water or shunting.   




On the 10th March 1884 

the South Croydon to East Grinstead line was opened.





THE RAILWAY REVIEW

21ST MARCH 1884

LONDON AND EASTBOURNE

A new express train service came into operation on the 10th inst., by which the public have now the facility of travelling by the new route via Tunbridge Wells, leaving Charing Cross daily at 11.20 a.m. and 5.40 p.m., arriving at Eastbourne respectively at 1.20 p.m. and 7.40 p.m. The trains from Eastbourne are equally convenient hours, viz, 9.30 a.m. and 3.5 p.m. This new arrangement, which is already attended with satisfactory results, is much appreciated by the public. the fares are the same as by the old line, and the holders of return tickets can return by either route.



Railway accidents on the 


L.B.S.C.R.


from http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk



West Brighton 24th March 1884 

Involving Brighton Driver William Verral & Fireman Alfred 

Jennings, 

Driver Robert Bond & Fireman Thomas Knight Depot Unknown

SEE SUB PAGE

THE RAILWAY REVIEW

21ST MARCH 1884

COLLISION AT WEST BRIGHTON JUNCTION

Two goods trains came in collision early on Wednesday (26th) morning at West Brighton Junction. The driver of one of the trains, in jumping off his engine, had one of his legs broken. Both engine were wrecked, but no serious damage was done to the permanent way.


Preston Park 26th March 1884





THE RAILWAY REVIEW

28ST MARCH 1884

Our reader may remember that about eleven months since an agitation took place among the London, Brighton, and South coast Railway engine drivers and firemen in regards too their conditions of service, which resulted in a n agreement, dated April, 1883, which was issued to the men by the locomotive superintendent. This agreement was the result of an interview between Mr. Stroudley and delegates chosen by the men from all parts of the line, and that gentleman expressed a hope that this settlement would satisfy them for a period of ten years. He also placed the responsibility for their grievance on the various district superintendents. We believe the settlement was fairly satisfactory to the men employed in those grades, and had acted up to by the officials, everything would gone smoothly for a considerable time. But, strange to say, within ten months there has been an effort made to evade the most important clause, without the slightest notice to the men. The following notice was issued on February 4th, signed by Messrs. W. Stroudley and J. Woodhead:-

"On and from Monday, Feb. 4th, the time in booking on and off duty will be altered, namely:- three quarters of an hour will be allowed before the booked time of a train starting, and three quarters of an hour after booked time of arrival."

We understand that the locomotive superintendent has denied that this is an alteration of the agreement, and  it is, therefore, necessary to ascertain what was agreed on at the time referred to. Clause 1, so far as it refers to this order, reads as follows:-

"In future drivers and firemen will be paid at the rate of ten hours per day or sixty hours for six days; time to be taken when they come on. duty, by order, and when they leave duty according, to the instructions of each foreman respectively."

This undoubtedly means that the men shall be paid for the whole time they are actually on duty, and the new order definitely substitutes the booked time. This policy, put forth in such a manner, has caused a great commotion among the men whom it affects, but it has not been put in force over the whole system at the same time; thus proving that the officials hesitated to adopt a consistent and intelligible policy, or they are feeling their way. It is also affirmed that a few days ago a deputation, selected by the officials, waited upon the superintendent in reference to this matter, but the leader and prominent men concerned in the last agitation were carefully overlooked. One would imagine that the company would desire to know the real views of their men, and this can only be done by allowing the meant to state them through their respective delegates, in whom they have confidence. Our advice is that the engine drivers and firemen should stand by the agreement, and insist on being paid accordingly. The men's confidence in the good intention of the higher officials has been greatly shaken by these actions, and it will require great tact and time to restore it. One lesson to be learnt from this matter is that whatever agreements are entered into employer and employed, there should always be a clause inserted stating that notice should be given on either side before any departure is made.   





 BRIGHTON DRIVER HARRY AYLWYN

extracted from RTCS book on locomotives of the LBSCR

Brighton enginemen, Harry Aylwin was leaving Lewes on of the evening of 11thApril, 1884, with his loco no. 209 ‘Devonshire’, the reversing gear was jammed in full forward position and as the crew were unable to shut the regulator for several miles a signal was passed at danger was inadvertently passed. This was reported by the guard when, despite the circumstances and the fact that no lives were actually endangered, the driver was fined £4 and his fireman £2. No of appeal was granted, even after the reversing gear was found to be faulty on inspection at Brighton.

Harry Aylwin was severely reprimanded and fined again in May, 1884 for not reporting a mishap on Eastbourne shed. He had moved his engine (No. 209 ‘Devonshire’) slowly towards the turntable after dark in pouring rain and failed to notice that it was set for the adjacent road. The front of his engine toppled gently into the pit and came to rest at an acute angle with much of the water running clear of the firebox. There was no alternative but to throw out the fired, and when this was accomplished Harry walked over to the foreman’s office and requested a spare engine because his was not steaming well. The foreman asked for more information, whereupon he was told in terms usually reserved for the very young or slow-witted – “Look, Mr. Jones, no engine steam without fire and mine has lost its”. The foreman was not amused, and in due course the witticism cost him another £3, together with a warning as to his future behavior.





THE RAILWAY REVIEW

2ND MAY 1884

LONDON, BRIGHTON, AND SOUTH COAST RAILWAY
TOTAL ABSTINENCE LEAGUE

On Wednesday, the 9th inst., the members and friends of the League celebrated their second anniversary. An excellent tea was provided in the men's mess room, New Cross station. The tables were tastefully decorated with flowers, which gave a very pleasing and refreshing effect.

A public meeting followed at 7.30 p.m., at which the president of the League, J.W. Robyn, Esq., presided, who congratulated them on the progress made by the League during the two years of its existence, also that J.P. Knight Esq., General Manager, Allan Searle, Esq., secretary, had become patrons (loud cheers), and trusted that God's blessing would still continue on the efforts of the League. letters of sympathy and regret were read from S. Laing, Esq., M.P., W.S. Caine, Esq., M.P., Mr. and Mrs. J.P. Knight, Rev. Morley Wright, Messrs Cash, Lucas, and others. The secretary Mr. John T. Smith, then read the second annual report as follows:-
At the commencement of the year 1883 the membership was 90, with two branches, whereas it now has 234 members, with branches allocated at New Cross, Battersea, Brighton, Portsmouth, willow Walk, and London Bridge. Only one member died during the year, and that was caused by an accident. 




THE RAILWAY REVIEW

2ND MAY 1884

LOCOMOTIVE STEAM ENGINEMEN and FIREMEN'S FRIENDLY SOCIETY

We have received the following communications from the above society, and for which we willing find space:-

27 Napier Street, Trafford Road, Salford
29th April 1884

Dear Sir, - We shall esteem it a particular favour if you will kindly insert in the net issue of your valuable paper the copy of the letter enclosed herewith, which has been addresses to Mr. Joseph Brooke, of Leeds, with reference to certain misapprehensions explained by the letter itself, and in which many of your readers have felt much concerned.

I remain, yours obediently 
John Brooks
General Secretary  


--------

The Editor of the Railway Review London

[COPY OF LETTER]

27, Napier Street, Trafford Road, Salford
29th April, 1884

Joseph Brooke, Leeds.

Dear Sir, - Our attention has been drawn from several quarters to certain rumours, which are calculated to do our old society very serious injury. We have been told that the general committee of this society are favourable to the proposals lately made by your executive for the amalgamation of the Locomotive Steam Enginemen and Firemen's Society and the Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen, and we are further informed that advantage is being taken of these reports to persuade young men that to enter the Associated Society will eventually be all the same as entering the Locomotive Steam Enginemen's not in the sense that the rules of the L.S.E. and the A.S. will eventually become one and the same society.

In the interest of all parties concerned in this matter, we cannot too speedily and emphatically do our utmost to remove such grave misappropriations, by stating that the general committee are not favourable to any such proposals, but that, on the contrary, they have the strongest possible feelings against them. They neither believe that it would have been right for them to say much a thing even if they had thought it, nor do they believe that the society would ever consent to it. It was their intention that the proposals of your executive should be met at the outset by any good intentions which might possibly have prompted them.

When the misapprehensions were first made known to us, we naturally disregarded them, thinking they were mere passing rumours, such, as we assure you, are by no means unusual in connection with institutions so large and wide spread as Locomotive Steam Enginemen and Firemen's Society. At first they were met with a simple denial, but as they did not appear to subside so readily as we are accustomed to see them do, we exerted ourselves to find out their origin, and singular to say, we think it is discovered in our letter to you of the 18th February. In that letter we fear that we introduced a conventional phrase with actually perverted the whole sense of the letter, and conveyed to your mind quite naturally, the impression that the general committee was favourable had it not been that, from the misfortune of circumstances, they were unable to say so in plain English.

However, we now trust you will kindly understand, once for all, that the general committee are not favourable; that they do not think it would have been right for them to say so even if they had been favourable; that it is their sincere belief proposals of this nature would fail to receive anything like an approach to a favourable verdict in the minds of the members throughout the various parts of the British Empire; and that this belief is based upon past experience in connection with similar proposals from other societies long since consigned to the limbo of forgotten things, but which were actuated by the same benevolent intentions as yourselves for promoting the best interests and welfare of the old society.

The effects of the rumour, trifling as they have been up to the present, have shown to us the possibilities to which they might have grown if the general committee had allowed for one moment any divided counsels to prevail about merging this society, of the nearly half a century's standing, which it is their privilege to represent, into an infant society, when was born, comparatively speaking, only the other day.

It is with feelings of reluctance that we find it necessary to write you at such length, because we fear that some parts of this letter (if not read in the spirit in which they are written) may be understood in a controversial sense. We do not for one moment think of imputing motives, and it is certainly our most sincere desire that you will receive this as a final end of a proposal  which we believed at the time was sent in good feeling, and which, in return, we endeavoured to put aside as kindly as possible - in fact, rather too kindly, in a literal sense, as the results have proved.

We further trust that you will consent to receive this letter as a final conclusion of the whole question, seeing that the reason for sending it is simply to explain in detail, and free from any blame in reference to a misapprehension, which has arisen out of the best motives on our part.

In conclusion, it is our duty to say that in certain parts of our society this unfortunate misapprehension has had such painful and disturbing effects upon some members, who are apparently as deeply averse to the proposals as the general committee, that we have been urged to send a copy of this letter to the Editor of the Railway Review for publication.

Yours truly
John Brooks




THE RAILWAY REVIEW

16TH MAY 1884

ASSOCIATED SOCIETY of LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEERS and FIREMEN

In reference to a communication from the secretary of the Locomotive Steam Enginemen and Firemen's society, which appeared on page 9 of our the 2nd inst., we have received the following from the associated society, which we print verbatim et literatim:-

Leeds, May 7th 1884

Dear sir, - I herewith enclose copies of correspondence which has passed between myself and Mr. John Brooks Secretary to the Locomotive steam Enginemen and Firemen's Friendly Society, and shall feel greatly obliged if you will in fairness to all concerned; publish the same in your next issue. 
Yours respectfully, 
Joseph Brooke, Sec 


------



EDITOR RAILWAY REVIEW

[COPY OF FIRST LETTER]

Leeds, Feb. 4th 1884

Gentlemen, - My committee with an earnest desire to promote the interests of Enginemen and Firemen throughout this vast Empire, and at the same time wishful not to injure in the least degree the old Society of which we are nearly all members; have come to the conclusion that it would be a most happy event for all concerned if we could come to terms of amalgamated - The Old Society adopting our Rules, Scale of Benefits, and Contributions which certainly more according to the requirements of the present day. - With this view in the fore I have much pleasure in presenting you with a copy of our Rules for the perusal and consideration of your Committee, which I trust may see the wisdom of accepting this offer of amalgamation.

I am, gentlemen your obedient servant
Joseph Brooke 


------



TO THE CHAIRMAN AND COMMITTEE OF THE
STEAM ENGINEMEN AND FIREMEN'S FRIENDLY SOCIETY


[COPY OF MR JOHN BROOK'S LETTER]

27, Napier Street, Trafford Road Salford
18th Feb, 1884

Mr. Joseph Brooke, Leeds.

Dear Sir, - I beg to inform you that the proposal from your committee of the A.S. of L.E. and F. Society, was laid before the General Committee at their last meeting according to promise, and I am instructed to inform you that whilst appreciating the good intentions of your committee in promoting the interests of all loco. enginemen and firemen, they no power to entertain the propositions for amalgamation, as this is a question with an assembly of delegates alone can decide, and they are sorry this matter was not brought forward at the last assembly of delegates which took place in July last, 1883.

I remain, yours obediently, 
John Brooks
General Secretary

P.S. Many thanks for the circulars and balance sheet. - J.B.  


---------



[COPY OF LETTER SENT MR. JOHN BROOKS, MAY 7th 1884]


May 7th 1884

Dear Sir, - In reply to your extraordinary letter of the 29th ult. which you have been urged on to published by the fanatics which bound in your society; which Society I am a member of, and as I told you in my letter dated Feb. 4th '84 also a large majority of the members of the Associated belong to the Old Club and therefore can have no interest in promoting those painful and disturbed feelings amongst the members of your Society which you so bitterly complain of. However we know perfectly well that there are always stupid persons who are opposed to every good intention and reform which is promoted by their fellowman for their own special interest, and who will not accept the ideas of those who are able to see into the future, until they are compelled by circumstances to receive the inevitable  - And that has been; and still seems to be; the case with those who have the management of the Old society. We know that they are powerless to act in a matter of this kind; but they might have been alive to the necessities of the times and kept pace with other workmen, then there would have been no necessity for the Associated which is being advocated solely for the good of Enginemen and Firemen who at the present moment are more oppressed than ever and less organised than ever. And this state of affairs as given birth to the (said Infant Society) which I trust leaving out the (Limbo) with careful training and good nourishment will come to maturity much earlier than his predecessor; and perhaps it is not much to say that some day not very far distant, the Grandfather would feel a sense of pride to be allowed to walk by the side of his ambitious Grandson, who is certain to take the ground from under the Old Man's tottering feet if he adheres steadfastly to the motives imputed in your letter. It cannot be to plainly understood that the associated was not inaugurated with a view to damaging the Old Society; but simply to supply a long neglected want. and the reason for offering Amalgamation was merely to show that we had no evil or hostile motives towards the Old Club. In conclusion I must tell you that we can only accept your letter in the spirit which the meaning of your words convey, and as you have been pleased to figure in the press I shall consider it my duty to forward the whole of the correspondence in connection with this matter for publication and lastly we feel deeply sorry that wiser counsels do not prevail at Manchester.

Yours respectfully,
Joseph Brooke
Sec A.S.L.E.F.



-------



MR. JOHN BROOKS
Sec L.S.E.F.F.S.

LOCOMOTIVE STEAM ENGINEMEN and FIREMEN'S FRIENDLY SOCIETY

37, Napier Street, Trafford Road, Salford
13th May, 1884

To the Editor of The Railway Review

Dear Sir, - Since writing our letters of the 29th ult. to yourself and the A.S.L., we have received from the latter a further communication (dated 7th May), which we confess appears to us a studied insult. In it we find language and terms of the most "extraordinary" kind, culminating, in the word "fanatics," into positively abusive epithets. Various words and phrases of ours are utilised as pegs upon which to hang laboured efforts at ridicule irony and invective. All this, however, is not sufficient, and the pale of common decency is passed by including a deliberate charge of inputting motives, after we had given the most distinct assurance to the contrary. Evidently the A.S.L. has been determined not to err in the use of respectful, kindly, and courteous language.

But when it is considered that the necessity for our last letter arose entirely out of a question emanating from the A.S.L., surely when a final answer is returned thereto - even under circumstances perhaps so annoyingly - it is unnecessary to reply in such apparently rude strained language. And when it is further considered that a mistaken notion, unwittingly originating in our own letters, had got possession of the public mind, it assuredly was our imperative duty to remove those false notions as publicly as possible, and at the same time clear away such misgivings as must inevitably follow in their wake.

As to what the A.S.L. was or was not inaugurated for, that has nothing to do with the misappropriations in question. To weave the programme of the A.S.L. into a letter intended for publication, may be a desirable way of advertising the A.S.L., but by introducing irrelevant matter of this kind, there is danger of misleading an ordinary reader into the belief that we are conducting a sort of persecution, whereas our sole object has been to remove certain misappropriations about the General committee's opinions, without prejudice to anybody or to anything. The unwarrantable language used by the A.S.L. could scarcely be better contrived to create further misappropriations.

Speaking of Mr. Joseph Brooke as a member of this society, we can only express our regret that the removal that the removal of the misappropriations has had such painful and disturbing effects upon himself. In reminding us that he is a member of this society, he appears to find justification for his subsequent remarks. But we can hardly realise it is possible for him to fall into such an elementary mistake as to suppose that a subterfuge, so palpably transparent, will screen the A.S.L. from the indignation of those who are able to estimate the full measure of impropriety and offensiveness which it unguarded utterances imply.

While it is the duty of the General committee, on behalf of this society, to acknowledge in suitable terms whatever is addressed to them in language befitting the position of the society, they cannot acknowledge that which conveys a gratuitous insult to members individually, to themselves as the General Committee, and to the society itself.

Our reason for addressing this letter to yourself, is that Joseph Brooke intimates his intention to publish the whole of the correspondence. If the carries out his intention through the medium of The Railway Review, we trust you will kindly insert this letter to yourself in the same issue, and see that the letter alleged to have been sent to us exactly corresponds with the copy enclosed. If, however, his intention is not carried out, please withhold this letter from publication, as it is by no means our desire to continue what has been turned into a very rancorous subject.

Yours truly
John Brooks     




Railway accidents on the 


L.B.S.C.R.


from http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk



Denmark Hill 29th May 1884





THE RAILWAY REVIEW

13TH JUNE 1884

A DANGEROUS SPOT 

On Thursday morning, Mr S.F. Langham held an inquest at St Bartholomew's Hospital on the body of William Ballad Fox, dwelling in Victoria Place, St. George's Road, Peckham, who was knocked down and killed by a locomotive on the railway between Brockley and New Cross. The driver of the engine said when he passed the spot he saw "hundreds of children at play on the line. Some placed their heads upon the line and waited till the train was close upon them before they would get out of the way. There was another train going towards the Palace, and witness saw several of the children get in front of it and wave their hands. When the driver of the engine blew his whistle they paid little attention to it, and he was obliged to stop. Witness saw the deceased run in front of his engine, and though he called out to him and blew his whistle, he paid no attention, and before witness could stop the engine it knocked the deceased down. Fortunately, however, he was enabled to pull up in time to prevent the wheels going over the deceased. There were hundreds of narrow escapes on holidays at this spot. The jury returned a verdict "Accidental death," and expressed a strong opinion that this spot ought to more adequately protected.




Painting by David Ramshaw 

TUNBRIDGE WELLS STATION





THE RAILWAY REVIEW

4TH JULY 1884


We have had occasion to comment on the way one of the locomotive superintendents on the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway has interpreted the agreement come to with the drivers and firemen by Mr. Stroudley, in April 1883. That agreement, if honestly acted up to, would have satisfied the men for a long time; but less than ten months the superintend referred to substituted "booked time" for the time on actual on duty. The men have naturally resented such innovation, and have taken steps to at once bring the matter before the head of their department. Yet, strange to say, although this alteration was not enforced over the whole system, that gentleman repudiated all responsibility, declined to interfere, and eventually went so far as to state that he would receive no more letter or deputations on the subject. This aroosed the indignation of the men, who resolved to appeal to the directors; but these gentlemen referred than back to the head of their department. An interesting correspondence has ensued between the local secretary and that body which we are informed, has been printed and posted on the notice boards at the engine sheds for the edification of the staff. The men, however, appear to have gained their point, and it has been arranged for a deputation of the men to wait on Mr. Stroudley - perhaps before these lines are in print - in order to come to an understanding on the subject. The men, in addition to asking that their agreement shall not be tampered with or altered without their consent, have asked for the removal of Mr. Woodhead, the unpopular superintendent at Brighton; and the earnestness of the men is shown in the fact that nearly everyone concerned has signed the memorial to this effect. Whether they will succeed on this point is questionable, but their bold action will no doubt have a salutary effect, not only upon this gentleman, but on all others who develops a tendency to insult and upbraid their men.  




THE RAILWAY REVIEW

18TH JULY 1884


Master have come to a deadlock on the Brighton. The drivers and firemen have for a considerable time been engaged in an agitation, the object of which is to insist in the agreement of April, 1883, being carried out, and the directors have intimated that the locomotive superintendent would be prepared to receive a deputation for the purpose of a settlement being come to. The local secretaries at once communicated with Mr. Stroudley, but instead of that gentleman acknowledging the letter, he caused notices to be posted up at the engine shed to the effect that, on a certain date, he would be prepared to receive a deputation of his men. No notice was, however, taken of this communication by the leaders, and consequently matters remain in statu quo.




Railway accidents on the 


L.B.S.C.R.


from http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk



East Croydon 9th September 1884 

Involving Driver Edward Elliot & Fireman Alfred Baber Depot 

Unknown SEE SUB PAGE





THE RAILWAY REVIEW

12TH SEPTEMBER 1884

LONDON, BRIGHTON AND SOUTH COAST ENGINEMEN

INTERVIEW WITH THE SUPERINTENDENT

With references to the movement which has for some considerable time past been carried on by the locomotive, enginemen and firemen of the London, Brighton, and South coast Railway, we learn that a deputation of enginemen, according to arrangement, waited on the locomotive superintendent at Brighton, on Sept. 2nd.

The deputation did not include the local secretaries, but consisted of seven enginemen. They were met by the superintendent, the district superintendents from Battersea and New Cross, and another official. The interview lasted over six hours, but nothing was definitely settled. The superintendent thoroughly gave the deputation to understand that he was not in a position to grant any concessions that would cost the company a single copper without obtaining the sanction of his directors. He promised that he would inform them of what had transpired that day, and make them acquainted with their decision.

The deputation was treated with kindness and courtesy.



Railway accidents on the 


L.B.S.C.R.


from http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk



Sutton 12th September 1884






THE RAILWAY REVIEW

19TH SEPTEMBER 1884

LONDON, BRIGHTON AND SOUTH COAST ENGINEMEN AND FIREMEN

MEETING AT BATTERSEA

On Thursday evening, September 4th, a meeting of enginemen and firemen was held at 8 p.m., to hear the delegates report of their interview with the locomotive superintendent on the 2nd ult.

One of the delegates was unanimously voted to the chair.

The chairman said - Most of you know why we have met here this evening, and those that don't know I suppose want to know. I and my brother delegates have, according to arrangement, been to Brighton and had an interview with the locomotive superintendent with reference to the "petition" that was forwarded some few months ago. They were accompanied to Brighton by their secretaries, and though they were not present at the interview with the superintendent, they were within call had they been required. He also spoke of how they were met by the locomotive superintendent, Mr. Richardson, Mr. Trangmar, and another official; also a clerk, who, he supposed, was there for the purpose of taking notes. The interview lasted over six hours. He did not suppose they would to able to repeat all that was said at Brighton, but the delegates would do so as near as possible. They purposed taking each clause in the petition separately, the same as they had done at the interview.

The secretary read the clauses separately, and the delegates gave their report upon each clause.

A slight discussion took place over one case, which the delegates said they had brought forward at th interview, in which men in the Brighton district were working fifty four hours "in four times booking" on duty, being booked off one day, and the sixth day was actually Sunday, as the men booked on duty at midnight on Saturday.

The secretary said that, according to the agreement of April 6th, 1883, the men had a perfect right to claim six day's pay for th fifty four hours, and to be paid at th Sunday rate for the hours worked on the Sunday.

The Brighton secretary was present at the early part of the meeting, and said that the case was quite clear and the secretary's statement was quite correct.

After the petition had been thoroughly gone through, the men were fully given to understand that nothing had been definitely settled, but the superintendent had promised to let the directors know what had transpired at the interview, and he would acquaint the men of their decision early in October.

The secretary asked the delegates, were they, in their own minds, perfectly satisfied with the interview with the locomotive superintendent, and did they really think the result would be satisfactory?

The delegates stated they were treated with every respect, and they were perfectly satisfied with the interview, and they thoroughly believed, in their own minds, the result would be satisfactory to the men. A vote of tha nos to the chairman, delegates, and secretary brought the meeting to a close at 11.40 p.m.




THE RAILWAY REVIEW

19TH SEPTEMBER 1884


DEATH OF BATTERSEA FIREMAN

W. SKITTRILL 

A fatal accident happened on the 16inst., at East Croydon station of the London and Brighton Railway. The fireman of a goods pilot engine, which was waiting at the station, had just left the engine to get some water when a train came along and literally cut him to pieces.

* should have been reported as the 14th September 

26TH SEPTEMBER 1884

FATAL ACCIDENT TO A MEMBER OF THE A.S.RS.


The Battersea Branch Secretary writes:- Brother W. Skittrill met with a fatal accident at East Croydon, on Sunday morning, at eight o'clock. He leaves a widow and six children to mourn his loss. He was a good member. He joined the society in September, 1877, so that the poor widow and orphans are entitled to the benefits of the Orphan Fund of the society.


DISGRACEFUL SCENE AT THE FUNERAL

A correspondent, writing to the general secretary says:- 
"It is with regret that I have to notify to you the death of T. Skittrall, fireman of the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway Company stationed at Battersea. This unfortunate man met his death in a most cruel manner on Tuesday morning, the 14th inst. He was engaged fetching a bucket of water to lay the dust from a tub under the water column at East Croydon station. On returning to his engine he had to cross the down local line, when the 7.16 a.m. train from London to Croydon dashed up and killed him instantaneously. The poor man was shockingly mutilated 'beyond recognition.' He leaves a wife and six little children to morn his loss.

I am pleased to inform you that though for Skittrall was only in receipt of 4s. per day to keep a wife and six little children on, he set an example to all railwaymen by provision he made when alive, to help to support his and family. He was a good member of the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants, and worked with a will in trying to induce others to become members, and he was one of the most ardent admirers of the good done to widows and orphan by the society, and he was one who never tired in trying to do good to the Orphan Fund. If there was any work to be done with reference to it poor Skittrall was sure to take a large share, and he has left behind him a name that will never die.

His widow will have great reason to be proud of the name she bears, as by his forethought and self-denial, he was enabled to keep his clubs paid up, and now Mrs. Skittrall will be the recipient of 6s. per week from the Orphan Fund of the A.S.R.S.

A most scandalous affair in connection with the above was the state in which the undertaker at Croydon made the coffin which contained poor Skittrall's remains. It was neither pitched nor anything else done to it to make it air and water tight. The result you can easily imagine, in fact, at the grave side, I and others saw part of it broken away, with blood dripping through the same. Another scandal in connection with the funeral, which took place on Saturday last, the 20th inst., at West Brompton Cemetery, was the refusal by the chapel doorkeeper to allow the corpse to be placed in the chapel. I asked the undertaker who was responsible for such a disgraceful proceeding, and he referred me to the doorkeeper as before stated, and said that he had done all that he could do to gain the admission to the corpse to the chapel. I contend that this act was a gross and wilful injustice to the poor widow and children, and also to the deceased's fellow workmen who followed him to the grave to the number of nearly 100.

I may mention that Skittrall took an active part in the agitation in the loco. department of the L.B. and S.C. Railway company of 1883. He was the corresponding secretary for Battersea district, and obtained 176 signatures out of a gross total of 182. He gave his whole mind and soul to his work, and was greatly instrumental in bringing the movement to a successful termination. for the part he took in this affair he was presented with the sum of £5 and an address by the enginemen and firemen of the L.B. and S.C. Railway at a cricket match and supper. If any of your readers should be disposed to open a subscription towards placing a tombstone over his grave, I should be only too pleased to add my mite; and either take charge of the same, or allow the editor of the the Railway Review, or any other person to do so. Mr. J. Richardson, June., booked as many off to attend as he possibly could."  

    

THE RAILWAY REVIEW

31ST OCTOBER 1884

T. SKITTROL, FIREMAN, KILLED AT NEW CROYDON
SEPTEMBER 14TH, 1884


Poor Skittroll's left this world of care,
I trust for one more bright and fair.
Yet how sad it is to think
Of his mates thus hurried o'er the brink
Of death, without a moment left
To breathe a prayer for those bereft
Of a father good and kind: -
I hope kind friends and help they'll find

He left his home in health and strength,
Ne'er thinking how short was the length
Of his stay on earth to be, -
Not e'em another night to see.
No doubt he bade his wife good night
With cheerful mile, and heart quite light,
Thinking, when his toll was done,
Another day's bread had been won.

But such, alas! was not to be,
No wife and family to see;
For, shortly after break of day,
Across the rails he mangled lay,-
A shocking, sickening, shapeless mass, -
Not breath to say, "Farewell, dear lass,"
To his dear wife and children six,
No once more in their romps to mix.

I knew him well! Of genial heart,
And always first to take a part,
In helping a mates, and all distressed,
So far his chicks let's do our best.
A grand example he has shown
To those who now their lot bemoan -
They can't afford, or else they would
Join hand in hand for common good.

H.B.

* the surname has been spelt three different ways in the Railway Review reports





THE RAILWAY REVIEW

26TH SEPTEMBER 1884


At last there is some prospect of the drivers' agitation on the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway being settled. It will be remembered that in the early part of 1883 a definite agreement was arrived at respecting hours and wages, and on that occasion the unanimity of feelings was shown by the fact that out of 660 men in that grade, 616 attached their names to the memorial. It had, however, not been in existence more than ten months when a definite attempt was made to evade some of clauses of the agreement on the Southern Division of that line. The men, however, resolved to resist this to the uttermost, and all divisions organised themselves for this purpose. Personal difficulties have, however, been in the way of a deputation meeting the Locomotive Superintendent, but these difficulties have now been removed, and a promise has been made that the men's claims shall be decided early in October. It is to be hoped that this decision will be satisfactory both to the company and the men.   




THE RAILWAY REVIEW

7TH NOVEMBER 1884


A shocking accident occurred on Monday night at Hayward's heath Station. A lady alight from the train from Lewes arriving at 6.15 p.m. Her ticket being a return from Redhill to Cook's-bridge, she waited on the platform for her train. During the interval the express train from Eastbourne to London passed through; the lady rushed from her seat and fell in front of the train, which passed over her. Her body was fearfully mutilated. It was subsequently ascertained that the name of the deceased lady was Channell (Channere), and that she belonged to Tyler's Green, Penn, Bucks.   





THE RAILWAY REVIEW

5TH DECEMBER 1884

ACCIDENT AT HAILSHAM


A Brighton correspondent writes:- I am very sorry to have to report a serious accident that occurred to the 4.15 a.m. Brighton to Eastbourne goods on Saturday last at Hailsham, causing serious injury to one of our drivers and head guard through running into stop buffers, and I have also to express disgust at the treatment received by the injured driver and guard, the former having his collar bone and several ribs injured, and it is believed that he has internal injury also. The guard’s skull is severely injured, and he is now suffering with concussion of the brain. After being attended to by a local doctor they were put into a carriage with no attendance, to be forward to Brighton Hospital, a distance of twenty three miles. On arriving at Polegate, three miles from Hailsham, the inspector, being the exhausted state of the men, spoke strongly about such treatment, and on his own responsibility, I believe, conveyed the injured men to Brighton, where no provision had been made, and I am informed that they had to wait twenty minutes after arrival before being moved out of the carriage, and you may fro, some estimate of their feelings when being conveyed along the platform on two chairs mounted on a luggage truck. I should like to ask where the stretcher and invalid carriage, provided at this station, were and who are the responsible persons to blame in this affair. I can remember a dog belonging to this company receiving much better treatment than this.  





THE RAILWAY REVIEW

12TH DECEMBER 1884

ACCIDENT AT HAILSHAM


In our issue of last week, on page 13, appeared a communication from a Brighton correspondent respecting an accident which occurred to a goods train, by which a driver and guard were injured, and the Brighton officials are charged with inhumanity. From information since to hand it appears that not blame whatever can be attached to the officials at Brighton. for, although they were not advised of the accident, immediately on the arrival of the injured men at that station the ambulance was got out, a horse sent for, and they were conveyed to the infirmary - in spite of the early hour of the morning - with all possible despatch. It would seem that if there was any delay at all it arose from the fact of the officials at Polegate omitting to telegraph to Brighton, advising that station that two injured men were coming by that particular train; and had this been done, the Brighton Officials would have had the ambulance in waiting for them. Correspondents cannot  be too careful in ascertaining real facts before rushing into print, for we, of the Railway Review, have a great aversion to "eating the leek." 


ACCIDENT AT HAILSHAM


Sir, - Referring to the above, as reported in your paper last week, will you allow me to site the facts as far as I know them, as your Brighton correspondent's report seems to me misleading. The injured men arrived at Polegate at 12.25 p.m., and were sent on by the 12.29 p.m. train. Seeing the mew were unaccompanied, I informed the stationmaster, who at once ordered me to take them to Brighton, which I did. On arrival at Lewes they were moved from one train to another on two chairs and a luggage trolley, in my opinion, the best thing we could have done. On arrival at Brighton I informed the station superintendent, who was on the platform, what had happened, and he at once ordered the invalid carriage to be taken alongside the train, which was done by his staff, while they were getting a horse from a parcel van standing at the parcel office. The men were lifted out of the train into the invalid carriage, by which time the horse was attached, and they were taken to the hospital, the whole being under the superintendent's personal supervision, and I don't think from the time the train arrival at Brighton until we were clear of the station, fifteen minutes elapsed. Now, sir, you will see by the above, that no time was lost at Brighton, and that from the time was lost at Brighton, and that from the time the men arrived at Polegate until they were left by me in Brighton Hospital, everything was done for their comfort that could be done by the parties concerned. By interesting the above in your in your next issue of the Railway Review, you will greatly oblige.
Yours obediently
J.R. Edwards 






THE RAILWAY REVIEW

12TH DECEMBER 1884

The latest medallion in blue enamel gilt, bearing on the face the representation of a locomotive engine, encircled with the name of the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants, and on the back a Maltese cross, has just been produced. The design is very neat, and the medallion is adapted for pendant to a watch guard. 

To put this serviceable decoration within the reach of all members, on receipt of eleven stamps, it will be forwarded by Mr. E. Harford, 306, City Road, London, E.C.; post free. The same in sterling and enamel, can be had for 3s. 6d. net.    





Railway accidents on the 


L.B.S.C.R.


from http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk



West Croydon 17th December 1884 

Involving Driver Robert Milley & Fireman Joseph Burbage Depot 

Unknown SEE SUB PAGE

Last Wednesday, shortly after six o’clock the West Croydon Station of the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway was the scene of an alarming and destructive collision between a passenger  train and a goods train. It seems that at the time mentioned the 3.40 p.m. “pick up” luggage train from Epsom to Willow Walk had arrived near to the West Croydon railway bridge when near brake van was suddenly run into by the engine of the 5.55 p.m. up passenger train from Sutton to London Bridge. Such was the violence of the contact that it sounded to persons a quarter of a mile distance like the explosion of dynamite. The effect on the goods train was marvellous, the centre trucks being pilled one on top of the other, while several were smashed to atoms. The guards of the goods train were found to have received serious injuries.
The Railway Review 26 December 1884





  STORIES FROM THE SHOVEL

extracted from the R.C.T.S. book of L.B.S.C.R. Locomotice Vol. 2

Tunbridge Wells Driver Osgood whilst working locomotive No. 273 Dornden on 17th December, 1884, when they were working the late night Eastbourne – Tunbridge Wells train. At Heathfield, Major Edwards, a wealthy landowner of Groombridge, ran on to the platform just as the guard was signalling the right away, so he was hurriedly assist into a first-class compartment before the staff noticed he was very drunk. At Mayfield the omission was quickly remedied for he complained bitterly of not having a ticket and on one being supplied he held up the train while he visited the toilet. On returning to his compartment the guard wisely locked both doors and with the crew further thought to the matter until between Rotherfield and Eridge, when the Major suddenly appeared on the footplate complaining that a large dog had chased him out of the carriage window. With understanding the fireman drove off the dog with his shovel, while the driver made their guest comfortable as possible on their coats, whereupon he quickly fell asleep. At Eridge a hasty inspection of the train showed that the compartment had been left through the window and passage to the footplate made along the running boards of two carriages, a feat no sober man could have performed in daylight. Needless to say no fierce dog discovered! The guard, stationmaster and driver agreed that the footplate was the safest place until Groombridge stop, so the train was dispatched and in due course reached that station. There the Major refused to wake up and had to be taken to Tunbridge Wells where a signal stop was made some four hundred yards from the platform. Coming to life quite suddenly the unwanted guest threw off the coats and flung himself off the footplate shouting “Groombridge, Groombridge, all change”. All was silent and as the signal changed to green the train was taken into the station where lanterns were obtained and a search party organised to collect the body. On reaching the scene a stream swollen with flood water was seen at the foot of a steep embankment down which various marks showed the Major's hurried descent. No body could be found, so the course of the stream was followed until it passed in a culvert under the railway line. The search was thereupon abandoned because no one considered a human being could be alive in such a ragging torrent. On return to the station a messenger was sent on a bicycle to the police and the business of stabling the train and the engine commenced, while the guard sat in the stationmaster's office preparing his report. Just as the police arrived and the story was being told, the very young and inexperienced booking clerk called assistance saying “A drunken tramp won't believe that the last train has left for Groombridge and he keeps beating off a huge dog I can't see”. For a moment silence reigned in the office, then there was a concerned rush for the ticket hall where stood the missing Major Edwards, covered in mud, soaking wet and still drunk but also very much alive. After the provision of dry clothing and black coffee, he was sent home by special train little worse for the escapade. Later on learning that the Company was penalising the men concerned, he paid their fines and sent a cheque for £25 to the Widows & Orphan Fund.





THE RAILWAY REVIEW

19TH DECEMBER 1884

FUNERAL OF A MEMBER

The funeral of Brother E, Mitchel, engine driver, who died suddenly at Portsmouth, took place on Tuesday afternoon, 9th inst., at the Extra Mural Cemetery, Brighton, at 2.30 p.m. his fellow mates mustered at the clubhouse, and proceeded to 49, Viaduct Road, where a number of his mates took a last look at his remains. The funeral started about 3 p.m., followed by almost 80 workmen, representing the different departments, headed by Mr. Woodhead (superintendent of the southern division) and Mr. Peel (foreman, Hastings). By the time the cemetery was reached the procession numbered 110, and it being a wet day the funeral sermon was preached in the chapel, after which the minister spoke a few impressive words to those present, and proceeded to the grave. The coffin being lowered and a last look taken the procession reformed proceeded to the entrance gates, and dispersed.





THE RAILWAY REVIEW

26TH DECEMBER 1884

L.B. AND S.C. SERVANTS


Sir, - I have never written you upon this subject except by the committee’s instructions, as I consider all correspondence passing between you and myself respecting this movement should be official, and such as can be published for the information of your readers, and the members of the Amalgamated Society especially, as they are aware the Executive Council gave their sanction to the movement. The District Committee have throughout been adverse to publishing matters relating to this subject, except such as they considered would serve a useful purpose. They have carefully discussed the matter, and have come to the conclusion that it is their duty to give the company every opportunity to settle the dispute in a satisfactory manner. This, I must say, they have done “in a strictly conscientious manner,” and have never for a moment studied “self interests or personal feelings” such as the officials have done; and I have not the slightest doubt, shoaled the men not gain any satisfaction from the company, the committee will consider it their duty to publish the whole of the correspondence that as taken place, so that the proprietors of the L.B. and S.C. Railways, and the public in general, may have the whole facts of the movement before them. I do not expect to meet the committee of the district again until after Christmas, but should no news be forwarded from them the locomotive superintendent before we meet I anticipate that some active steps will be taken. Referring to the promise made up by the locomotive superintendent to the deputation which aired upon him on Sept. 2nd, he distinctly told the deputation, he was not in the position to grant any concessions, rich would cost the company one single copper, without receiving the sanction of the directors, and he promised “faithfully” to let the directors know what transpired at the interview, and inform the men of their decision about the middle of October. During October the locomotive superintendent could not fulfil his promise, owing to ill health and having to leave home; he has now been at his post some few weeks, and it is with extreme regret that I have to state he has not written one single sentence to the men. Whatever may be his reason for treating the men in such a manner, is more than I can really tell, though I may say, I have my own private opinion upon the subject. I must, however, allow each one to judge for himself as I have no authority to say what the feeling is amongst the men at the present time.

W. ELLISS, 

SECRETARY


BATTERSEA DISTRICT COMMITTEE

P.S. - Since I commenced writing this letter, I have received three communications from gentlemen I have not the pleasure of knowing, asking for information respecting the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway superannuation fund. I have advised them to purchase the Railway Review every Friday. I cannot be expected to answer such letters, as I am a servant of the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway Company, and I have my duty to do towards them; moreover the time for bringing this question to the front has not arrived.       


--------


It will be seen from a letter which appear in another column that no decision has yet been given by the officials to the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway company to the memorial presented by the men in the locomotive department. It will be remembered that a promise was made that a definite reply would be forwarded to the men in October last. There may be, in this instance a sufficient explanation of the delay, but it is rather singular that these official promises made apparently with such good faith, should be forgotten of overlooked. In October, 1883, the locomotive officials on this line made a certain promise to the men which we believe was not fulfilled, and it seems likely that the 1884 promise will share the same fate. This conduct cannily have one result; and that is, it will create in the men’s minds a want of confidence between them and their superior officer, and render impossible those harmonious relations so necessary for the good management and safe working of a railway. It is high time that matters were settled one way or the other. The agitation has been going on in one form or another nearly eighteen months. When a satire on the letter of a delegate published in our columns in the early part of 1883: He therein stated that if the agreement of April was honestly carried out the  company would hear nothing from that department for at least ten years. That little word, “if,” however, or those who rendered its insertion necessary, are entirely to blame for all this rouble  

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