THE LOCOMOTIVE STEAM ENGINEMEN

 AND FIREMEN FRIENDLY SOCIETY

Sir, -- I  crave a little space in your excellent paper to point out to your readers that it is apparent to any thoughtful enginemen or firemen that some of your correspondents re the above Society are not members at all, but are fire brands of the A.S.R.S., who profess to have respect for the Old Society, and at the same time are trying to do injury to the Associated Society (which was started by members of the Old Society). These A.S.R.S. meddlers know that the consolidation or amalgamation of the engine men's and firemen's Societies would upset the platform of the "Jack-of-all-trades" unionism. And that being so these railway enters try to sow the seeds of discord and cause distrust, apathy, jealously and contention universally amongst us. But, sir, I am glad to say enginemen and firemen are beginning to see that the only effectual mode of improving their condition of labour and interests is in minding their own business, and not leaving it in the hands of frothy cranks who have been the downfall of the railway enginemen.

17 YEARS A MEMBER

Liverpool, December 18th, 1896

THE LOCOMOTIVE STEAM ENGINEMEN

 AND FIREMEN FRIENDLY SOCIETY

Sir, -- After being in the Old Society some thirty years, I have to pay 11 1/2d. a week to receive 9s. 0 1/2d. out when sick. Mr .Wray carried this at Manchester this week, and he put the last nail in the coffin by so doing. The King's Cross branch had a meeting at the city of York on Sunday, the 24th ult., and thirty three members declared they would pay no more in, because the Old Society is done for. Where are they going to get young men in join an old patched up club like this old engine men's society? The only thing I can see that is left for us old men is to approach the New Society with a view of being taken in on a scale, and then Messrs. Wray, Day, Martin, and Soloman could bring the head office to London; and if that failed, share out. It would be a bad look out for the Old Enginemen's Society if the Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen made a new scale for members of the Old Scale of pay extra into the Associated. That is all we shall require -- in fact, they will have to. We enginemen cannot stand this banquet bungled up job. Since 1889 we have lost 13,000 and some odd hundreds up to 1896; in five years' time it will be no more.

PEDULAR PALMER

King's Cross, January 30th, 1897

THE LOCOMOTIVE STEAM ENGINEMEN

 AND FIREMEN FRIENDLY SOCIETY

Sir, -- Reading the letter of "Pedlar Palmer" on the "Herald," February 6th, I beg to say I agree with him in thinking that Mr. Wray's scheme -- if it is really adopted -- is indeed the last nail driven into coffin. The old fabric won't need any more nails, for the nails already driven in will not hold it together long, and a  little more time and weather will leave it beyond hope of repairs. I joined the Society (unfortunately) when just turned 30 years of age, and for my temerity was mulcted in a sum of 30s. My age, too, according to rule, compelled me to pay an additional contribution of 1s. per quarter more than a man who joined a few years younger. Now, if a man is 25 and not exceeding 30 years of age, he pays as entrance fee 5s. If just over 30 he pays £1 10s. It will therefore be seen a man prays dearly for the difference of a few years. He, of course, does not grumble at this, seeing that he accepts the conditions with "his eyes open" to all the circumstances. I contend, air, that the difference in entrance fee, the higher contributions paid -- according to age -- brings all the members down to one common level as regards liability to any further increase of contribution necessary to maintain the solvency of the Society, but it seems that, by some incomprehensible process of reasoning, the delegates have decided otherwise. In the face of the fact that the junior members are nearly, if not quite, as liable to require the incapacitation grant as the senior -- i.e., they are is liable to lose a leg, arm, or eye as the latter -- the dictum that decrees a man under 30 shall pay no more in contributions for the maintenance of the necessary funds to secure to secure to him the 5s. weekly, while a man over 30 is taxed 1d. per week, and each succeeding five years and additional penny, till 4d. per week extra is reached, under all circumstances, I consider manifestly bad. No wonder asserted by you correspondent "Pedlar Palmer," that 33 members at King's Cross expressed their determination to leave the Society. There are other branches that will follow the example of the King's Cross branch, more or less, and no wonder. If a penny a week had been levied all around -- and this would have met all the pecuniary demands -- all would have ended well/

PRACTICAL

Childs Hill, N.W., February 7th, 1897

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Sir, --  "Pedlar Palmer" says he shall  have to pay 11 1/2d. per week to remove 9s. 0 1/2d. sick pay. I doubt if this is correct; and the General Committee should order an apology, or otherwise deal with this 30 years' member. Why does he not state the whole of the benefits -- viz., 10s. per week for sickness, 8s. per week out of work or travelling relief, £15 at the death of a member, £5 at the death of a member's wife, last, but not least, 5s. per week pension allowance?

He alos says that Mr. Wray carried this at Manchester, but I must correct him, and explain that it would be left in the hands of the delegates, and if a majority of them were in favour of it, then, no doubt, it would become a rule -- and to my intense delight.

I think the King's Cross scheme with regard to the Pension Fund was the best on the agenda, and I shall certainly send a letter of congratulation to that branch as soon as I get an official report on the subject. 

We intend keeping our Old Society a Friendly Society, and not a Trades Union to rule us. "P.P." asks where are we going to get the young men to join us? Why, by explaining that we do not wish the young ones to pay for the thirty year old members' simple ways. I think he may as well not mention his new society any more. He says 33 members declared they would pay no more. Well, they will leave their money behind, and no doubt Mr. Wray won't be long before he will be able to get 33 more young men to step in their places. The A.S.L.E. and F. can make what rules they like for the members of our Old Society; but if you wish to draw out you leave your money behind.

I hope myself to come to London at the next banquet meeting, where I know I shall find some sensible men, and hope to see Mr. Wray. I am see the Old Society is conducted properly, and the only fault is we have to extended our sympathy rather too far in the past, which has been one of the causes of discontent in our ranks; and I am satisfied to know that I am.

NOT A LUNATIC

Chesterfield, February 9th, 1897

THE LOCOMOTIVE STEAM ENGINEMEN

 AND FIREMEN FRIENDLY SOCIETY

Sir, -- In reading the "Railway Herald" for Feb. 20th, 1897, "Not a Lunatic" writes in favour of the Old Society, and states that at the finish of all the benefits they give 5s. per week pension allowance.

With your kind permission, I would like to refer him to the rules of his Society.

Rule 16, states a man must bear a good character, and have conducted himself properly for at least one year before joining. "Rather degrading" for a man to be treated as a suspicious character until it has been inquired into, before he is allowed to become a member."

General Rule 23 B, states no man shall be entitled to pension allowance for old age unless he has been a member 35 years.

General Rule 23, also debars a man from claiming on the Pension Fund, unless he can prove some infirmity or illness.

Now, Mr. Editor, assuming that a man has been a member 35 years as per rule, and he claims on the Pension Fund, he hoes not get the 5s. per week as "not a Lunatic" states, because after becoming a pensioner he has done with all sick benefits, and still has to pay 2s. 6d. per quarter to that Pension Fund, as per Rule 23 A, if he joined over 25 years of age, thus reducing the allowance to 4s. 9 3/4d. weekly. And then again, if the member wishes his family to receive the death allowance, after paying for it 35 years, he must still pay, "although a pensioner," another 1s. 6d. per quarter; so that actually he would only receive 4s. 3 1/2d., instead of 5s. as "Not a Lunatic" stated in his letter.

What a nice large sum that means after 35years' membership. I fully endorse the remarks of "Pedlar Palmer" in last week's issue, because young men can read and write for themselves, and are not so easily led blindfolded into anything as they have been in theist, and have been entered into Societies that they have not made any inquiries about.

EUREKA

Stratford, E., February 19th, 1897

THE LOCOMOTIVE STEAM ENGINEMEN

 AND FIREMEN FRIENDLY SOCIETY

Sir, -- From what I hear, Mr. Wray's (King's Cross) scheme does not seem to stand, after all, on firm legs. The scheme is altogether a hybrid one, and, if propped up, will always be a weak, knock kneed affair, that must eventually consign the Society to bankruptcy and extinction. Mr. Wray's scheme was devised by him to retain the young member, and encourage other young men to join. Those who supported him were told it would. have an opposite effect, which, however they did not believe; if they did they persistently ignored any suggestions offered. Mr Wray succeeded simply by attending meetings held in different parts of the country; his sophisticates, backed up by a plausible loquacity, did the rest. Of course, he armed himself wit certain facts, abstracts from different Friendly Societies statistics tending to provide that the contribution could not support the benefits; but according to the average actuarial computation, "insolvency" is everywhere the rule. As a member I would advise that, if the scheme is really likely to meet with final rejection, it be announced as early as possible, otherwise I fear many members will drop out whom it will be hard to induce to come back to the Society. I observe, sir, your contrary, the "Railway Review," in an article in the issue of the 19th inst., headed "The Old Enginemen's Pension Fund," announces a meeting held at Blackburn with regards to the alteration in the pension fund rules at the recent conference. The meeting, it is said, expressed itself highly satisfied with the King's Cross scheme. Well they might, since the scheme will make many pay out to the tune of about 13s. 6d. per quarter for a benefit of 10s. a week in sickness, and a prospective allowance -- given, however, under very special circumstances -- of 5s. per week. My payments to this precious Society, I may add, will, under the new scheme by 12s. 5d. per quarter. It is the prospect of the ultimate heavy payments the young members must meet that is driving them out of the Society before they get too old to join another.

PRATICAL 

Child's Hill, N.W., March 21st. 1897

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The festival dinner of the Locomotive Steam Enginemen and Firemen Friendly society's held on there 24th ult. at the Holburn Restaurant. 

The Society was founded in 1839, and the Pension Fund in connection with it was established in the year 1841. During the last 14 years, owing to stricter tests on eyesight adopted by all the great railway companies, the fund has been unable to meet out of the annual income all the demands made upon it, and the reserve fund, which has been steadily built up, is now practically exhausted. 

The Chair was taken by the president of the Society, Mr. John Morley, M.P., who was supported by; Th Hon.Evelyn Ashley, Mr. T. Lough, M.P., Mr. G. Drage, M.P., Mr. E.R. Moon, M.P., Mr. J. Bell, Mr. T.C. Jenkins, Mr. A. Grove, Mr. F. Ward, Mr. C. Mansfield, Mr. D. Drummond, Mr. G. Estall, Mr. W.J. Grinling, Mr. T. Higgs, Mr. J. Brooks, Mr. W. Day, and Mr. Allen.

In proposing the health of the Queen, the Chairman said that no feature of Her Majesty's long reign was more marked than the enormous rise that had taken place in the condition and in the recognition of labour, and he believed that no one more truly rejoiced in that than Her Majesty the Queen, who had always shown her sympathy with the people who toiled within her empire. (Cheers.) 

The toast of the evening, "Prosperity to the Society," was given by Mr. Morely, who said that it was a spending triumph of modern civilisation that there was in this country a great army of railway servants who realised in the best sense all that could be achieved by  strict military discipline. They presented a spectacle of thorough efficiency combined with mainly and self respecting independence. He had read only a few days before that in the United Staes engines were being built which would run at the rate of 86 miles an hour. He was sometime called a "Little Englander," but he disliked the idea of this country being beaten in anything, and getting wanted to see the United Kingdom at the top of all the enterprises in the world. He was, therefore, very glad to learn that there were designers of locomotive construction in this country who were not at all dismayed by what was being attempted in America, and who were quite prepared to show that this country was able to keep peace with all its rivals. 

The Society was purely a benefit society. Suggestions had been made for a scheme of old age pensions, but every scheme of the kind must proceed on the lines that no danger should threaten the voluntary friendly societies. For his part, he believed that in the voluntary efforts of the men, rather than in Acts of Parliament, rested the salvation of labour in this country.

Mr. Morley then referred to the financial difficulties of the society owing to the increase stringency of the sight test, and expressed the hope that the public would translate their sympathy with the men into solid assistance, and rally to the support of a most useful and deserving institution. (Cheers)

Mr. Day acknowledged the toast on behalf of the executive committee. "Our Friends in Parliament" were toasted by Mr. A.F. Calvert, and the compliment as acknowledged by Mr. T. Lough and Mr. E.R. Moon. Mr. Geoffrey Drage, Moon., proposed the toast "Our Railways and Officials," which was responded to by Mr. W.H. Acworth, and Mr. Archibald Grove gave the health of  "Our President," a host which was received with great enthusiasm, and which was briefly acknowledged by Mr. Morely.  

THE LOCOMOTIVE STEAM ENGINEMEN

 AND FIREMEN FRIENDLY SOCIETY

Sir, -- The members of the Harland Branch held a meeting on April 11th to hear a report from Mr. James Foster, of Colwick, the delegate who represented them at their (what ought to be annual) delegates meeting. I am pleased to say the members are satisfied with Mr. Wray's scheme, and the instructions were to get the rules signed when they come; still, there are many things in the way of reform which were not carried at that delegate meeting, such as the appointment of an Organising Secretary, the amount per member any branch should hold to their credit, and the alteration of the rule relating to transfer. With reference to Mr. Wray's scheme, I am pleased to say that my experience has been far more pleasant than that of "Practical," of Child's Hull, for every old member that I have asked respecting that scheme has decidedly in favour of it, and I have travelled wide, and have lost no opportunity of testing men on it; I do not ask the young men, they, on the other hand, come and tele what a splendid scheme it is, there may be a few of the old ones draw out, which no doubt they will regret. Possibly "Practical," with a few others, are rather vexed because amalgamation did not take place with the other society; well if that had taken place, it is quite likely there would have been a great many draw out; there is no doubt that I should, if it had been registered under the Trades' Union Act. I will give you the reason, because, in the event of a dispute with any Railway Company, I should be afraid that all the money I had subscribed for Friendly Society benefits, would be used for trades union purposes; therefore, it is highly important that it should remain as it is. Now, with reference to some branches with the large capital which was spoken of in circular issued by the York branch, some time ago, I wish to especially remind capital, yet they do not wholly support their pensioned members from that capital, but draw from poor branched, such as Colwick, Harland, Long Eaton, and many more. Over £440 was paid to the General Committee from the three poor branches named above for the four years ending 1894, to help feed branches such as York, whose circular sees to speak as though the branch funds belong to the members of the branch, and the pensioned members belonged to the General Committee, as you will notice three large branches, amongst which is York, for the four years ending 1894, paid to their pensioned members, in addition to what they received in contributions to the Pension Fund, a sum of no less than £2,114. As young man wishing further information on the subject, if he will communicate with me. I will try and satisfy him. The York circular speaks of the indifference of other branches; they do not say they lost 28 members during the four years I mention, and they do not say Leeds lost above 90. Now, what was the cause? The circular says we know that two societies are detrimental to the interests of enginemen and firemen. Now, who started the second society? was not the L.S.E. and F.F.S. enough? This was the first, and we intend keeping first as a Friendly Society, we are not going to bow to a trades' union. Is it a  fact that, Bristol branch elected a man from Newton Abbot, to represent them at the delegate meeting, and did the men who voted for him pay his fare to Bristol and back from Newton Abbot, or did the General Committee do so?

W. GRANFIELD

2, North Terrace, Midland Cottages, Harland, Chesterfield,

April 19th, 1897

THE LOCOMOTIVE STEAM ENGINEMEN

 AND FIREMEN FRIENDLY SOCIETY

Sir, -- In your issue of May 1st a letter under the above heading appeared from Mr. W. Grandfied, of Harland Branch, and although there is nothing in it I take very seriously. I feel it is my duty, as a member of the "Old Society," of 17 years standing, to give an answer to a few questions asks. "Who started the other Society"? (meaning the Associated ). Well, Sir I might inform him it was member of the "Old Society" -- in fact, the first member, and the first General Secretary, and nearly all the delegates who drew up the rules at the Manchester Conference, in 1881, were members of the "Old Society." In fact, the Associated is the bone and flesh of the "Old Society," and had the "Old Society" kept pace with the times, no new society would have been formed. It is all very well to praise our old friendly society, but what about an enginemen who was refused the paltry from sum of 8s. per week travelling pay whilst awaiting his trial on a charge of manslaughter at York Assizes, at which he was able, by aid of Trade Unionism, to establish his innocence? But Mr. Grandfield says, "We are not going to bow to a Trade Union." I think the Harland Branch has already bowed to a Trade Union, when they wanted to devote a column of the A.S.R.S. organ, the "Railway Review," for the benefit of a friendly society. And as a further case of the Old Enginemen trying to look a little Trade Union like see the Twenty third Annual Trades Union Congress Report (page 4) for the name of a delegate who tried to palm the "Old Society" off as a Trade Union.

MIDLAND 

Chesterfield District, May 8th 1897   

THE LOCOMOTIVE STEAM ENGINEMEN

 AND FIREMEN FRIENDLY SOCIETY

Sir, -- With reference to "Midland's" letter of May 15th issue, re starting the other society, he says the members of the Old Society started it. I say they did not. It may have been a few members of the Old Society who assisted in starting it, without the authority of the whole of the member. I remember it well, and was aware of the of the evil which would be wrought by starting a society in opposition to the old one. Well, time has proved me correct in my opinion. "Midland" is quite right in saying it is bone and flesh of the Old Society, for I was once given a book of rules to read, with a view to converting me, but it did not come off, and I thought what a similarity there was in the two books of rule, which went to prove that someone had been copying from the Old Society's rules. Well, as regards its keeping pace with the times, had the Old Society held an annual meeting from its commencement, no one would then have been able to have lodged that complaint against it -- but it is never too late to mend.

"Midland" says it is all very well to prise the Old Society. Well, what else should I do as a member? I don't cry stinking fish! I should be foolish, as well as a traitor to my society, to say anything against it. If a young man were to come and want to join the friendly society, would a member offer him a society registered under the Trades Union Act? I should think not.

If some of the enginemen of 1881 wished to convert the members of the Old Society to Trades Unionism, why did they tamper with friendly society matters? This is where they made mistakes. There is a way out now, but, of course, a Trade Unionist won't be dictated to by a member of a friendly society. "Midland" says, "What about travelling relief for a man awaits his trial." I do not know the circumstance of the case; I should have to be guided by the rules, which no doubt the branch of which this particular man belonged did. "Midland" accuses the Harland Branch of "bowing to a Trade Union." Well, I don't see where the bow comes in. It was my suggestion to the Harland Branch that we should try and get a column devoted to the Old Society in each railway paper -- the "Herald" and "Review." I am a subscriber to both, and if we had got what I wanted I should have had to pay one penny for each paper that I bought, the same then as now; but it would have been a benefit to each paper, and an especial benefit to the members, who have not the chance to of attending branch meetings. The matter, I think, was treated the same as most of the other Harland suggestions by the delegates -- as extraneous matter. I would like to keep pace with the times with regards to the Old Society, bu it would not be by amalgamation; it will never be palmed off as a Trades Union by me if I can help it. I shall do my level best to keep it a friendly society. Does "Midland," because amalgamation did not take place, say things against his Old Society, when in 1896 over £7,282 was paid to pension members, £2,003 on death of members, and £390 0n members' wives' death? And on the face of this, will he give it a bad name? "Midland's" room at a branch meeting would be better than his company, unless he can have a better opinion of our Old Society. I am pleased to know I am a member, and I am not ashamed of my name or my principles.

B. GRANDFIELD

2, North Terrace, Midland Cottages, Harland,

May 17th, 1897 

 ENGINEMEN AND FIREMEN'S SOCIETY

Sir, -- I see in the June issue of the "Locomotive Engineers and Firemen's Journal" a letter signed Arthur Davies, in which asks the favour of the three E.C.'s to allow him to chose seven men from the Old Steam Enginemen's, the A.S.R.S., and the Associated Societies; but h does not make it plain what he intends to do with this trio sevens. I think we must all admit that our position today is deplorable, whether looked at from an organised or condition of service point of view, and so if Mr. Davies has a scheme whereby he could draw us together in one society, or otherwise set us on the right track to better our position. I think he deserves the encouragement and support of all enginemen and firemen. Knowing Mr. Davies to be a reader of the "Herald," I trust you will kindly insert this, so that when it meets his eyes he may enlighten the enginemen and firemen of the country as to his intentions, and so receive the support or otherwise, of that important body of men. I shall only be too pleased to give him what little support I can in the Press, or otherwise, if his suggestions are workable and tend to uplift us as a body.

ENGINEMEN

Swansea, June 5th, 1897 

THE L.S.E. AND F.F. SOCIETY

The claims of the Locomotive Steam Enginemen and Firemen Friendly Society are forcibly urged in a circular just issues on behalf of the Birmingham branch. The objects of the Society are to assist the members in times of sickness and distress. The branch was established in Birmingham in 1839, and since that time £393,145 15s. has been expended in benefits to the members. A pension fund is attached to the Society, established to assist members whose means would otherwise be insufficient to provide their daily wants in times of incantation, infirmity, and old age, and it is on behalf of this fund that it is specially hoped to enlist sympathy and support. The Society now provides for 550 pensioned members at an annual cost of £7,150, and a considerable number of these claimants have come upon the fund during the last few years, owing to a large extent to the eyesight test recently established by the railway companies in the interests of the public. To meet this serve strain upon the fund the members have been paying an increased contribution for several years, besides quarterly levies. This has been insufficient to meet the heavy demands made upon it, and large sums have been drawn from the sick and funeral funds to meet the claims. By sheer force of circumstances has an appeal been rendered necessary on behalf of pensioned members. The Lord Mayor of Birmingham has kindly granted the free use of the Town Hall, and it is proposed to hold a concert in aid of the Pensioner fund on Monday, December 13th.